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| Jan. 5, 2009 - 9 Tevet 5769 |
| Daf Yomi Bava Kama 8 |
| 3442/318 BCE Ezra HaSofer
4824/c.1064 Rav Yosef HaNagid Hy"d - Son of Rav Shmuel HaNagid
5392/c.1532 Rav Avrohom Chaim Schor - Toras Chaim
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Summary of:
The Daf
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Summary of the Daf
- If the Mazik owns Idiyos and Ziboris the Nizak collects from Idiyos and the Ba’al Chov and the Kesuvah is collected from Ziboris
- If he owns Be’inonus and Ziboris the Nizak and Ba’al Chov collect from Be’inonus and the Kesuvah is collected from Ziboris. read more
1. However another Be’raysah states differently that the Ba’al Chov collects from Ziboris, not from Be’inonus. The Gemara gives a few different explanations for the discrepancy between the Be’raysos. According to first Pshat the Be’raysah that states that the Ba’al Chov collects from Be’inonus is referring to a case that he originally had Idiyos and than he sold it after he borrowed the money so the Be’inonus was Meshubad to the Ba’al Chov. Alternatively according to the opinion that we judge Idiyos by what others regard as Idiyos the Ba’al Chov collects from the Be’inonus if it is a Karka that is regarded by others as Be’inonus, if the Karka is regarded by others as Idiyos the Ba’al Chov may not collect from it and he collects instead from Ziboris. Alternatively the Be’raysah which states that the Ba’al Chov collects from Be’inonus holds like Ula that even though Min ha'Torah a Ba’al Chov collects from Ziboris the Rabanan decreed that a Ba’al Chov collects his Chov from Be’inonus.
- Ula says that Min ha'Torah a Ba’al Chov collects from Ziboris, however the Rabanan decreed that a Chov is collected from Be’inonus so that the door will not be locked on potential borrowers.
- If a person owes money for Nezikin, a Chov and a Kesuvah and he sells all of his property to one person or to three people at the same time the Nizak collects from Idiyos, the Ba’al Chov from Be’inonus and the woman for the Kesuvah collects from Ziboris.
- If he sold one property after the other to three different people all of his creditors collect from the last property to be sold and if it is not sufficient for all of them they collect from the next to last property to be sold. read more
The Halachah is that a Ba’al Chov may not collect from a property that was sold if the debtor still owns some property that he has not sold. Therefore when he sold the first property the Shibud for the Chov is completely on the remaining property that he had not yet sold and even if he subsequently sold that property the Shibud for the Chov remains on that property of he doesn’t have any property left that he has not sold.
- If he sold one property after another to the same person if the last property that was sold was Ziboris they all collect from Ziboris.
- If he sold one property after another to the same person and the last property to be sold was Idiyos they all collect the property they would have collected from the debtor. read more
Even though the Shibud for the Chov was on the last property to be sold which is the Idiyos , however that which a Ba’al Chov may not collect from the last property to be sold is a decree of the Chachamim for the benefit of the buyer and in the case that the buyer bought the Idiyos last and he doesn’t want to pay all of them with Idiyosit is not for his benefit and therefore he can say since the decree of the Chachamim is for my benefit I am not interested in the decree of the Chachamim in this case.
- Anyone who is not interested in a decree of the Chachamim that was instituted for his good, such as the decree that a woman is supported by her husband in return for her handiwork, may forgo the decree. read more
The Chachamim decreed that a woman is supported by her husband in return for her handiwork as a benefit to the woman since often her handiwork is not sufficient to support herself; since the decree was for her benefit if her handiwork is worth more than the cost of supporting her she can waive her right to support from her husband and keep the handiwork for herself.
- If a person owes money for Nezikin, a Chov and a Kesuvah and he sells all of his property to one person and the Idiyos was sold last, if the buyer sold the Be’inonus and Ziboris all of the Chovos are collected from the Idiyos. read more
Since the Idiyos was bought last the Shibud for all of the Chovos is on the Idiyos. In this case he can’t say that he is forfeiting the decree of the Chachamim because since he sold the Be’inonus and Ziboris he may not forfeit the decree at someone else’s expense.
- If the buyer sold the Idiyos and kept the Be’inonus and Ziboris for himself, the Chov and Kesuvah is collected from the Be’inonus and Ziboris that remains in the hands of the first buyer. read more
Even though the Idiyos was the last field that was bought by the first buyer, however since if he had not sold the Idyos he had the right to forfeit the decree of the Chachamim and the debts would have been collected from Be’inonus and Ziboris when the second buyer bought the Idiyos he also bought the right to forfeit the decree of the Chachamim and make them collect from Be’inonus and Ziboris even though he doesn’t have the Be’inonus and Ziboris because when a person sells property he sells it with all of the same rights that he had when he was the owner of the property.
- If Re’uven sold all of his properties to Shimon and Shimon sold the Be’inonus to Levi the Ba’al Chov has the choice to collect the Be’inonus from Levi or the Ziboris from Shimon. read more
Although a Ba’al Chov collects from Be’inonus, however he has the right to collect Ziboris from Shimon because he can say that since you bought all of the properties from Re’uven you are in his place and I may collect from you without going to Levi.
- If Shimon sold the Idiyos and Ziboris to Levi the Ba’al Chov collects from the Be’inonus that remained in the hands of Shinon.
- If Shimon sold one Be’inonus to Levi but he still has another Be’inonus that he bought from Re’uven the Ba’al Chov may only collect from the Be’inonus in the hands of Shimon and he may not collect from the Be’inonus in the hands of Levi. read more
Because Levi can say I left a Be’inonus in the hands of Shimon for that reason so that you will have a land that you can collect from without collecting from me.
- If Re’uven sold a field to Shimon with a guarantee and the Ba’al Chov of Re’uven attempts to take the field from Shimon, Re’uven has the right to make a claim in an attempt to keep the field in the hands of Shimon. read more
The Ba’al Chov can’t say that you are not my Ba’al Din because Re’uven could respond that if it gets taken from him he will demand payment from me.
- Some say that even if Re’uven sold the field to Shimon without a guarantee Re’uven has the right to make a claim because he can say that I don’t want that he will have a grievance against me.
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Shulchan Aruch
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Summary of the Shulchan Aruch
- If someone has Idiyos Be’inonus and Ziboris and he owes money for Nezikin a Ba’al Chov and a Kesuvah and he sells the property to three different people on the same day the Nezikin collect from Idiyos, the Ba’al Chov collects from Be’inonus and the Kesuvah collects from Ziboris. If when he attempts to collect from one of the buyers the buyer claims that you can’t collect from me because I bought the land after the other two buyers according to some opinions that we listen to him and he may not collect from him m’Safek. However others say that since it is not discernible from the Shtar which one bought the land first because the time of the day is not written in the Shatr the Kinyan is not Chal until the end of the day. (Shulchan Aruch CM 119:3)
- If he sold the property to three people on three different days, or he sold them in one day and he wrote the time of the day in the Shtar, if none of the Ba’alei Chov have precedence, for example that the date on all of their Shtaros are the same or if after he was Chayav he made a Kinyan for all them at the same time, all of them collect from the last buyer and if it is not sufficient they all collect from the second to last buyer. However, if the date of the Shtar of one of the Ba’alei Chov was first he collects from the last buyer first and the one that is next in line collects from the second to last buyer. If the Nezikin is first he collects from the last buyer even if it is Ziboris and if the Ba’al Chov is next he collects from the second to last buyer even if it is Idiyos and if the Kesuvah is next she collects from the third to last buyer even if it is Idei Idiyos. (Shulchan Aruch CM 119:4)
- If he sold the property one after the other to the same person all of the Ba’alei Chov collects as if they were collecting from the debtor. However that is only the case if he bought the Idiyos last, or if he bought them all at the same time, but if he bought the Ziboris last they all collect from the Ziboris. Some say that this is only true if the seller is no longer alive but if the seller is still alive he could return the Ziboris to the seller and they all would have had to collect from the seller or if he bought the Ziboris last even if the seller dies they all collect from Ziboris. If he bought Be’inonus last the Nezikin and Ba’al Chov collects from Be’inonus and the Kesubah collects from, Ziboris (Shulchan Aruch CM 119:5)
- If he sold his properties to the same person one after the other and the buyer sells the Ziboris and Be’inonus and leaves the Idiyos for himself everyone collects from Idiyos. If he sold the Idiyos and left the Ziboris and Be’inonus for himself the Nizak collects from the Idiyos in the hands of the second buyer and the Ba’al Chov and Kesuvah is collected from the Be’inonus and Ziboris that remains in his hands. (Shulchan Aruch CM 119:6)
- If Re’uven sold all of his fields to Shimon at one time and Shmon sells a field of Be’inonus to Levi and Shimon no longer has a field of Be’inonus wheh the Ba’al Chov of Re’uven collects he may choose to collect the Be’inonus that is in the hands of Shimon or he may collect one of the fields that is remains in the hands of Levi and even if the only field that remains in the hands of Shimon is Idiyos. However he may only collect from Levi if he bought Be’inonus but if he bought Ziboris or Idiyos he may not collect from him. According to some opinions however he collects from the Ziboris that is in the hands of Levi if the only field remaining in the hands of Shimon is Idiyos. If a Be’inonus field remains in the hands if Shimon he may not collect from Levi even if Levi bought a field of Be’inonus. (Shulchan Aruch CM 119:1)
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Bava Kama 8Brief Insight IN PLACE OF THE DEBTOR
If Re’uven sold all of his properties to Shimon and Shimon sold the Be’inonus to Levi the Ba’al Chov has the choice to collect the Be’inonus from Levi or the Ziboris from Shimon. The Rosh says...read more | | |
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| Bava Kama 8Quick Halacha COLLECTING FROM LEKUCHOS
If someone has Idiyos Be’inonus and Ziboris and he owes money for Nezikin a Ba’al Chov and a Kesuvah and he sells the property to three different people on the same day the Nezikin collect from...read more | | |
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| Bava Kama 8Lamdan The Gemara says that a buyer of property can threaten a woman who is collecting her Kesuvah that if you don’t agree to take Ziboris I will return the Ziboris to the original owner and you will...read more | | |
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